Xbox 360 Fanboy

just because a orginization disbands doesnt mean the technology ceases to exzist.Look at the nes theres third partys that still make the console and sell them in china.

As long as something was already created and the research has been done completed and payed for.People will come along and pick up where that technology left off and use it to where they see fit.

movie reels are a good example of this.Even tho people went from projection to vhs people still found use for the technology and they do even now theaters etc.

Yeah, someone just got done playing/reading something Lord of the Rings related.

Maybe he meant that the fanboy anger would be so great as to manifest itself into a supernatural being that, whilst mounted atop his dragon, will rain vengeance down upon the microsoft zealots. "The ring wraiths ride in black, ride on."

Orrrrrr too much Halo.

you do realize that what you said is completely and utterly retarded?

HDDVD is GONE and will NEVER return. Blu-Ray is here to stay. Get your shit right.

makes sense =P

Yes we all know hddvd as a movie format is dead but as a storage format it has potential due to the fact that its hard to find hddvd burners.This means a good amount of disc capacity right up there with bluray.No loyalty to sony and less chance of pirated games due to hddvd burners not being mass marketed.By 2011 there wil b e bluray burners is all pcs meaning pirated sony games will be on the rise.

at first I thought you were joking, and maybe you still are, but you do have a really good point.

after all, Sony still uses umd for the psp and most people consider that a dead movie format.

HD DVD is dead, which means the company behind it isn't making the disks any more, which means there not going to bring it back just to plonk games on, the costs would be stupid and limit 3rd party support.
Its either going to be on Blu-ray, or some new fangled disk storage medium which can store 1 Terrabyte and smell like peppermint.

actually the discs themselves are cheap to make.It would not alienate 3rd party devs at all.Saying that would mean umd alienated 3rd party devs or nintendos disc formats like gamecube.

With dev kits that are supplied will come burners and its the best route.The technology has been developed already it will cost them nothing to manufacture the discs and burners as there is no huge demand by the consumer.It will be a one way product for microsoft.

Microsoft has been banking on digital delivery.They never really supported hddvd as a movie format.I feel they pushed toshiba to manufacture the technology becuase they knew the day would come that they would need a solid sized disc and that they would be the only ones with there paws on it.

movies delivered via digital download games on hddvd with dvd upscale thats there goal they know bluray will be a dead movie format in a few years.Dont believe me look at bluray attach rate its going no where period.

For clarification sake, here is the skinny on the future of the HD DVD format.

Yes, there is still a future for the HD DVD format. That future is more in China (you know those guys who actually manufacture about 80% of all brand and non-brand DVD players on planet Earth), Taiwan and the far East who have not only forbidden the import of any competing formats (ie. blu-ray), but has state support for the adoption of a version of the HD DVD technology, dubbed CH DVD (China High Definition DVD).

CH DVD will be the only successor to DVD in the world's largest consumer market (ie. no format war in China). The format is set to launch officially at the 2008 Olympic Games in Beijing this summer, has full support from every major Hollywood studio (including Sony Pictures Group), and at the prices the Chinese government, and their many industry partners will be foisting these on the populace, stands a reasonable chance of faster adoption rate than DVD in that part of the world. Ultimately meaning, that for HD content, they have a captive audience of around a couple hundred million consumers making up the Chinese middle class who can afford them.

So, besides using the exact same technology and fabrication plants as HD DVD, what does this have to do with the future of HD DVD?

Simple.

The difference between CH DVD and HD DVD is negligible. Pretty much making one is making the other. The only real difference will be in the CH DVD players will use a different file system than HD DVDs. However, the Chinese being who they are, and firmware being what it is, and both HD DVD players and CH DVD players requiring an Ethernet port and the ability to be upgraded as standard parts of each format, do not be surprised to see HD DVD compatibility firmware patches released for all CH DVD players, meaning that CH DVD players will likely play both, which is good for anyone who wants to import their player from China - and let's face it, what gadget guru out there hasn't imported something from China.

As a storage medium, it also means that the HD DVD format is not dead, but quite the opposite. Once again, the Chinese government and their manufacturing partners, are pushing this application of CH DVD in a big way. So expect tons of those in th markets as they continue to proliferate in the Far East.

What does this mean for Xbox 720?

It means that as the adoption of CH DVD continues unabated in China and the Far East, the price for the technology will continue to decline, making it feasible that by 2010 - 2012 window when the Xbox 720 is expected to launch, the technology should be inexpensive enough to license very cheaply to go into the new Xbox, without contributing heavily to the cost of the hardware or the cost of the discs the games are pressed on. Most likely should this possible scenario play out, Microsoft could pick up the HD DVD license for cheaper than the CH DVD or blu-ray licenses, as the format is no longer in existence, giving the Xbox 720 an inexpensive, semi-proprietary disc format, which at 51GB per disc, should more than meet all their space needs for well over a decade of future game consoles, while also putting a reduction on piracy due to the semi-proprietary nature of the format.

However, this only one possible scenario out of four. Microsoft could go blu-ray with Xbox 720 - of course blu-ray would still be the most expensive possible choice. They could go harddrive only with Xbox 720, but I think most people would be right in assuming that HDD-only would have a limited appeal until around the time Xbox 1080 would be due to launch sometime between 2015 - 2017. There is however one other, very real alternative most gamers do not know about, which would actually be the least expensive route to go that would fulfill all the Xbox 720's and even Xbox 1080's space needs.

I'll discuss more on that in a moment.

They can also do a dual-format reader using Blu-Ray and HDDVD only being used for games...

Umm... You on crack? The entire HDDVD association disbanded, it's gone. Furthermore, i bet all the games will be available through download, and any storage medium will be secondary for people who can't download them directly.
-Taylor

The other possible media format for the Xbox 720 (and even the Xbox 1080) would likely be in the form of UK-based New Media Enterprises' HD VMD (high definition versatile multilayer disc).

What about HD VMDs could possibly provoke Microsoft into licensing the technology?

Easy enough.

Unlike blu-ray, HD DVD and CH DVD, HD VMD still uses tried and trusted red laser assembly. Matter of fact, most of everything surrounding the production of HD VMD discs and laser assemblies, are almost exact to existing red laser DVDs.

If they are almost identical, then what differentiates HD VMDs from standard DVDs?

New Media Enterprises has patented a technique in which they can increase the number of layers present in a standard red laser disc. Currently, production HD VMDs are hitting 24GB of storage space, with potential future versions storing up to 100GB capacity.

Now I know there is at least one person out there thinking, "Only 24 gigs! But blu-ray has double that space at 50 gigs." And to that, think from the perspective of a game designer and an engineer. Not only does blu-ray cost more, but no game for the next decade is going to need more than 24GB worth of storage. Yeah, Sony has games like Metal Gear Solid 4 which take up a full 50GB blu-ray disc, but that is more due to shoddy programing and stuffing the game full of non-interactive cinemas, than the actual game itself. If Microsoft were trying to sell movies on a disc, then blu-ray's extra storage would make sense. But they are attempting to sell videogames on a disc, and games do not need anywhere near as much space as movies. Look at open world games like GTA IV as the perfect example. Remember how for years everyone kept saying that it would be impossible to get sand box, open world games to fit on a regular DVD and that the Xbox 360 was doomed as a result? Well they lied. And open world games like GTA IV, Oblivion, Saints Row, Mercenaries 2, Saints Row 2, Far Cry 2, Destroy All Humans, Prototype and a host of others are the proof that all the scare about space was hogwash all along, most likely perpetrated by Sony's need to fool gamers into paying extra to have blu-ray in the PS3, when we clearly did not need blu-ray for games yet.

And while true, this generation will be the last generation where the 8.5GB of space on a regular DVD will be enough for games, that does not mean that next gen the space needs for games are going to double or triple. Microsoft is a software company, who has come to specialize in making better, easier to use, more efficient software tools and development environment for game authoring. This is not going to change anytime soon. Most likely, the average game for next gen will be somewhere between 10GB to 15GB, well short of the HD VMD's current storage limit. So yes, at only 24 gigs, HD VMD is still a very safe bet for gaming purposes for at least another decade.

But that is only part of what makes HD VMD an attractive alternative. HD VMDs (drives and discs) are about as cheap to make as regular DVDs. So whatever it costs Microsoft now to make the DVD drives for Xbox 360, it will cost them even less to make HD VMD drive for Xbox 720.

HD VMD offers a faster data transfer rate than blu-ray, HD DVD/CH DVD, or DVD. Meaning shorter load times.

650Nm red lasers are more stable than 405Nm blu-lasers, which means you can spin the disc faster, which leads to faster load times. Which is an advantage that the 12xDVD drive in the Xbox 360 already has over the 2xblu-ray drive in the PS3. With HD VMD, Microsoft will continue to have that advantage for games.

One of the main reasons HD VMDs are so cheap to manufacture, is they can utilize the exact same production lines as standard DVD. Not only does this keep costs cheaper than any of the other HD formats, but also means that anyone in the world currently making DVDs can make HD VMDs, which is a benefit to 3rd party publishers looking to get the lowest price for production of their discs.

HD VMD is 100% backward compatible with standard DVD without the need of any special equipment - no need for two separate laser assemblies. Which means that games that fit on less than 8.5GB of space can use a standard DVD, while games that take up more space can use a HD VMD.

And finally, because the HD VMD is a semi-proprietary format, it will help put a damper on game piracy without the need for any intrusive DRM.



Oh, and did I mention that it all costs less . . .